Go Back   The Supercar Registry > General Discussion > Technical & Restoration


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-06-2023, 10:32 AM
JRSully JRSully is offline
Yenko Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,330
Thanks: 0
Thanked 318 Times in 155 Posts
Default

We have a very small Sunoco gas station here in town, owned by a Retired Hot Rodder I'm told, only works on vintage cars and sells nothing but Sunoco Unleaded Race Fuels at the pump, last time I checked, 100 Oct Unleaded was about $10/gal. Can get AvGAs for around $6.75-7/gal
__________________
70 L78 Nova Fathom Blue,Bench, 4spd, F41, 3:55
71 Porsche 911 Targa
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-06-2023, 09:29 PM
luzl78 luzl78 is online now
Yenko Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: n.j.
Posts: 2,180
Thanks: 46
Thanked 292 Times in 205 Posts
Default

$10 a gallon is not bad. I pay 24 a gallon for 50:1 2cycle premix so I would love to have that gas station near me
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-07-2023, 02:51 AM
camarojoe's Avatar
camarojoe camarojoe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 5,297
Thanks: 233
Thanked 228 Times in 110 Posts
Default

I used 100LL in my 69 L72 Bel Air last year exclusively with no issues. Maybe a splash of 93 here or there, but at least 90% straight 100LL at any time. Was almost half the price of VP110 and seemed to do just fine. Plan to use it again this summer and as many summers as I can still get it.
__________________
Joe Barr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to camarojoe For This Useful Post:
scuncio (01-07-2023)
  #24  
Old 01-09-2023, 10:28 AM
sixt9rsx33 sixt9rsx33 is offline
Yenko Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 1,243
Thanks: 48
Thanked 495 Times in 145 Posts
Default

I went back to the Sunoco Station that sells 100 Octane put five gallons in my car that had a little bit of 93/AG left. The 100 Octane Sunoco was $9 per gallon car ran well.
The AG is $6.75 per gallon as I recall. I am going to confirm a clean can get five more gallons of AG and run that just to confirm it runs well in my car at sea level.
__________________
65 Corvette Coupe L78
67 427/390 Vette Coupe unrestored
67 L-79 Vette roadster (Top Flight)
69 L71 Roadster Survivor
69 L46 Roadster Survivor (Sold)
69 Z/28 RS
69 Dodge Charger R/T
70 W30 442 Auto Air Survivor
2016 Z06 Coupe M7
70 AAR Cuda (Sold)
69 L78 Chevelle
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-09-2023, 12:15 PM
CanCOPO CanCOPO is offline
Yenko Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 221
Thanks: 614
Thanked 153 Times in 46 Posts
Default

I run the 100 LL in my Z with no issues. I've been told to add a bit of Mystery Oil
__________________
1969 Hugger Orange RS COPO (Sold)
1969 Garnet Red Z28
1969 Super Bee (Sold)
1965 Pontiac Lemans
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-09-2023, 12:40 PM
mhm1966 mhm1966 is offline
Yenko Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Gillette, New Jersey
Posts: 379
Thanks: 376
Thanked 59 Times in 32 Posts
Default

I have tried the Mystery Oil and it seems like my carburetor doesn't like it. Maybe I was using too much oil. What ratio do you use?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-09-2023, 02:15 PM
CanCOPO CanCOPO is offline
Yenko Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 221
Thanks: 614
Thanked 153 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Approximately 2oz to a tank. I also have good luck with the Tetraethyl Lead additive.
__________________
1969 Hugger Orange RS COPO (Sold)
1969 Garnet Red Z28
1969 Super Bee (Sold)
1965 Pontiac Lemans
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-09-2023, 02:18 PM
CanCOPO CanCOPO is offline
Yenko Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 221
Thanks: 614
Thanked 153 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Octane Supreme from Wild Bill's
__________________
1969 Hugger Orange RS COPO (Sold)
1969 Garnet Red Z28
1969 Super Bee (Sold)
1965 Pontiac Lemans
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-10-2023, 11:00 AM
JRSully JRSully is offline
Yenko Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,330
Thanks: 0
Thanked 318 Times in 155 Posts
Default

Although the AvGas solves the octane problem for me, one of the other primary reasons I use it is to avoid the ethanol, the stuff just disintegrates and is so destructive to vintage fuel systems
__________________
70 L78 Nova Fathom Blue,Bench, 4spd, F41, 3:55
71 Porsche 911 Targa
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JRSully For This Useful Post:
DougA (01-12-2023), mhm1966 (01-10-2023)
  #30  
Old 01-12-2023, 01:47 AM
427yenko 427yenko is offline
Yenko Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 108
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Here is some good reading on av gas and octane requirements/ratings.
From another forum:
VeryFastVeryFast Well-Known Member
JoinedMay 14, 2006 Posts263 RDC Crypto106 LocationArizona & Puerto Vallarta, MX Websitewww.RRMarkets.com
Aug 6, 2008
#15
Real info on Race Gas/Av Gas...

My experience comes from 7 years as the western states representative for 76 Race Fuel, Unocals 40 hours Advanced Products course, Working personally with Tim Wusz (senior performance products Rep for Unocal, Tim was responsible for Unocals race fuel development for 30+ years). I have also met and discussed fuels/motors with just about every engine builder in every facet of racing in the western United States. I also conducted Educational Seminars at the Fred L. Hartley Institute in Brea in which we would invite Engine Builders for a tour of Unocals testing facilities and do live octane tests on any gasoline they would choose to bring to the seminar. Included in the training we would demonstrate live tests how Distillation curve, Reid Vapor Pressure, Specific Gravity, Octane Rating, F;ashpoint, etc are conducted and the importance of these numbers. Some of you will remember me from contingency with my 76 Racing Gasoline hospitality trailer in the 1990's.

Through the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's Av gas was the base product used for most racing "gasoline". VP, f&L, Turbo Blue, and Trick all used AV gas as the base product. They would buy a tanker (8000 gallons of Av Gas) than add other hydrocarbons/TetraEthylLead (TEL) to the base, drive around the block stopping and accelerating the truck/trailer until they felt the product was mixed well. Obviously this was not The Science™, but it worked for most racers only because most racers use a higher rated octane than they actually need.

In the mid to late 1990's VP graduated to buying there own base product and do there blending of products in a much better fashion. Turbo Blue and Trick have since been bought Sunoco and are blended by Sonoco. Trick was purchased by Phillips 66 and has continued to be blended by Phillips 66.

The only two companies I am aware of who "cracked" there own base product is Sunoco and 76. And as we all know, 76 race fuel is no longer available, leaving only one true manufacturer of Racing Gasoline....Sunoco.

AV Gas has a MOR (motor octane rating) of 96, R+M/2 rating of 100, and ROM (Research Octane Rating) of 106.

AV Gas is lighter than racing gasoline thus more fuel/larger jetting is required. Jetted correctly you should not experience a lean burn at WOT.

I would not use AV Gas as a cleaner. The amount of TEL (2 grams/gallon) and other hydrocarbons makes it extremely carcinogenic. Same goes for all other racing gasolines.

Shelf life is NOT better. The reason pump gas won't last as long is because street gas has extremely lightend hydrocarbons to help your car start and idle. Racing Gasoline does not have these light end hydrocarbons needed for idle and starting, hence the reason race motors start and idle poorly.

Av Gas is NOT designed for low RPM motors. AV Gas is designed to not detonate/preignite causing detination. This would be the same design as race fuel. If you compare the "distillation curve" of AV Gas to Race Gas, you will find they are almost identical. The "distillation curve" controls the speed of burn across the combustion chamber.

You will only "spit" gas out the exhaust pipes if you run to rich or include a supercharger/turbocharger on your engine and "overdrive" the blower. Example would be the bitchin flames you see at the starting line of a drag race on normally aspirated engines and the long flames you see on all "blown" engines.

The LEAD (TEL) added to AV Gas is to increase the octane rating only. All heads these days have harden valve seats. There is no need for lubrication of the valve seats. All engines have come with harden seats since the late 60's.

AV Gas is not formulated for High Altitude. and will have very little, if not any performance differences vs racing gasoline. On the other hand, commercial grade fuels (87, 89, 92) will definitely enhance your performance due to the commercial fuel being oxygenated. The Oxygen enhancers added to commercial fuel is only for California Smog laws.

Advancing timing on your motor will definitely help with AV Gas and Race Gas due to its slow burn characteristics. On the other hand, be careful if your running commercial grade gasoline, more timing can cause detonation/preignition quit quickly.

AV Gas does not go BAD faster. It is extremely consistent. The MOR is only 96, whereas Sunoco Purple or VP C12 is 104. A rating of 96 is good for up to 10:1 on Steel heads and 12:1 on Aluminum heads with water cooling. Air cooled motors run much hotter.

Buying a higher octane for a $20-50K motor is the cheapest insurance available.

Remember this...OCTANE is a measure of a fuels ability to resist detonation/preignition. The higher the Octane number, the slower the fuel burns. Technically speaking 87 Octane fuel will develop more power than 118 Octane fuel. With this said, you should see gains in throttle response and HP by mixing commercial fuel and AV Gas/Race Gas. You now have some light end Hydrocarbons for throttle response and heavy hydrocarbons/TEL for detonation resistance.

Bottom line... use the most consistent fuel you can find and create horsepower by moving as much air as possible though the combustion chamber.

I have no reason to be bias here as I have moved on to much greener pastures. See you on the race course.

Good Luck,
Steve Poole

Also:
https://warteraviation.com/wp-conten...VGAS-100LL.pdf

And:
https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Octane.htm

Bob
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to 427yenko For This Useful Post:
69M22Z (01-12-2023), CanCOPO (01-12-2023), COPO (01-13-2023), dustinm (01-12-2023), LT1vette (01-12-2023), sixt9rsx33 (01-12-2023)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

O Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.