1969 ZL1 Copo Camaro Test, Prepped by Dick Harrell -Motor Trend

[dykstra]

So was the #67 Huffman car the Hugger Orange one?
Farmington, IL is a couple towns over from me.
Jerry and I have a couple mutual acquaintances.
As you know, he’s a great guy and a wealth of knowledge, just like you.

[William]

#66 is Cortez Silver, #67 Orange. Both were an expensive PIA for the dealership.

Wish I had recorded the calls. He told me COPO 9560 was deliberately ended at 69 cars. He said the dealership was contacted by Barney Krass from Central Office; Chevy was looking for 17 additional orders. Without knowing the cost, they placed two orders. Quite a surprise when they were invoiced. Even more surprising was why they bothered. They were acquainted with Fred Gibb as both dealerships were involved in racing. At the time of their order there were 37 ZL-1 Camaros in stock at Gibb's, 65 miles from Huffman's. He said they simply didn't know.

Jerry passed away a few years ago.

[combinefixer]

Originally Posted by William

The first two ZL-1 Camaros were rushed into production and delivered to Fred Gibb Chevrolet December 31, 1968. The #1 car was prepared for drag racing and failed tech inspection at its first event in AZ. It had been built with the production L-72/L-78 #3959164 #4346 780 CFM vacuum-secondary carb. At that time, it was thought to be a supply problem. However, the 850DP carb had been in production by that time; 1968 dated carbs are known.

A likely reason for the substitution was the production ducted hood air cleaner was not designed for use with a double-pumper carb. The air cleaner had a 90° vent tube on the rh side that interfered with the secondary accelerator pump. It appears likely that Chevrolet Engineering knew this; box #176 on the Chassis Broadcast Copy for #1 & #2 shows carburetor code ‘GE’, the production code for the 780. [Carbs were installed at the Norwood assembly plant].

In interviews with Fred Gibb, he stated the 50 cars he received were built with the 780. In magazine drag tests [Super Stock May ’69; PHR July ’69] of the #1 & #2 ZL-1 Camaros, the ‘street’ ZL-1 was tested with both carbs. Gibb stated Chevrolet retrofitted the remaining cars in stock at the dealership early in 1969. It is not known what modifications were made to accommodate the 850DP.

As for the other 19 ZL-1 Camaros, #3 and #51 were built during the same time span as the Gibb cars. #3 was photographed for a road test feature in the August 1969 Hi-Performance Cars magazine. The engine photo shows a 780 carb, choke plate intact. One of the last ZL-1s [built May ‘69] was raced for many years, sold to its second owner in the late ‘80s. The original owner stated at the time that he swapped the 780 for an 850DP purchased at a speed shop, had the receipt to verify.

37 of the 50 Gibb ZL-1 Camaros were returned to Chevrolet and re-invoiced to other dealerships. By that time, they had been retrofitted so it is likely their original owners assumed the carb was original.

Considering what is known, there is little reason to believe any ZL-1 Camaro was built with the 850DP.

The vintage story/photographs seen here were the work of Ro McGonegal, free-lance auto journalist in the '60s. While it is widely believed the 'street' ZL-1 in the feature was the #5 car, Ro recalled the testing took place on an unusually warm day in January, 1969 at KCIR near Harrell's shop. The only two ZL-1s in existence at that time were #1 & #2.

Incredible history lesson! Great thread.

Wonder why GM didn’t spec the Holley “3418” 850 cfm vac sec carb that the L88’s had been using vs the L78/L72 4346 carb?

[lycan]

listen ... don't trust that guy william. I think he makes this stuff up, as he goes along. It's really the only plausible explanation


just playn of course. He's a living, breathing encyclopedia for all things ZL-1.


and one hell of a great guy to boot

[lbnaz]

FYI, Jerry died a couple years ago. He used to winter in Tucson, AZ. I got to know him fairly well. He was a wealth of knowledge. He had some great stories and photos of the cars being delivered to their dealership.

[JoeC]

When I read the post from the Byrne Bro mechanic in NY who said he replaced the ZL-1 engine in a black ZL-1 Camaro in 1970 or 1971, I thought of ZL-1 #12 that was in NY and was black when the second owner Eddie bought in about 1976 and it did not have the original engine

#12 was in Floral Park, New York about 32 miles from Byrne Bro Chev

Eddie says it has a CE block in it

photo is Eddie towing it home

youtube with Lou C. and Eddie and ZL-1 #12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU7PqMz3XPo

link to 2004 feature of ZL-1 #12
https://www.yenko.net/features/2004/August2004.htm

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

Likely the same car as this 10/70 Ad from Port Chester NY w/ Byrne Bros. only 15 minutes away?
Nothing of Harrell but same 52 built noted, still Blue also under warranty…maybe when Dr. Tucci got it?
Here’s to the Drafted lad selling it, hope he made it home!

~ Pete

.

[JoeC]

In the article Eddie wrote , he says he is the 2nd owner but maybe he is the 3rd?

[William]

Not the only mystery surrounding it.

It was sent back to the Norwood Camaro plant May 24, 1969. For the next 14 months, nothing is known about it. No ads, no dealer re-assignment. Earliest known mention is the October 10, 1970, Daily Item ad stating it is "...3 mos. old". That places its first retail sale July, 1970. The selling dealer is not known. Byrne Bros was a NY performance dealership, not mentioned in any of their ads.

It turns up next in the September 1975 Hot Rod Mart ad claiming that it was sold new out of "Dick Harrell Chevrolet" for $7300. Harrell was not a Chevrolet Dealer and couldn't have sold a car on MSO. But if it was at Dick Harell's shop, it may have been re-assigned to Bill Allen Chevrolet as they have been known to work with Harrell. Considering all that is known about Harrell and Bill Allen, odd it hasn't come up. How would a young guy in NY have known about a car for sale in MO?

As did I, Porterfield maintained a listing of ZL-1 blocks/engines for many years. On his list #12 is shown as having a ZL-1 engine with pad stamping CE07950. That indicates a warranty replacement assembly built in 1970. Warranty replacement engines were built to order; at that time Chevrolet had plenty of complete ZL-1 engines, blocks and partial engine assemblies sitting in stock. What's more, the latest known ZL-1 casting date is early August 1969. Hard to imagine having a bare block removed from stock, shipped to Tonawanda for assembly, when partial and complete engines were in stock.

Not criticizing #12 at all. It is as advertised and one of the nicest ZL-1s known.

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

Below is the 11/76 Ad Eddie replied to then drove to NY and bought ZL1 #12 from Dr. Tucci.
Some info notes 124379N609149 was sold by Stauffer Chev Scranton PA, is this wrong?

~ Pete

.