They're still out there (COPO) hiding in plain sight.

[GotGrunt]

Originally Posted by Copo_Cartel

I had already received photos of the car from a potential buyer and the asking price was 50k...seeing what that car needs and what it will cost to restore without Motor, Transmission and Documentation...you will be upside down when it comes to value...post restoration.

Question for the COPO experts... without a numbers matching block, POP, or other factory/dealer documentation, will the “tell tale signs” be enough to bring COPO money, especially after a costly restoration?

[Copo_Cartel]

IMHO ...after your restoration.... with quality parts and quality restoration the end value in today’s current market is $125K. Restorations usually take 18 months. Hope this helps. I enjoy the hunt for parts , and the entire process. If needed I can help with sources.

[bergy]

"COPO" money is a pretty broad range. The best cars have known ownership history, factory/dealer documents, and expert inspection certifications. Original drivetrain is a huge factor.

Even without factory/dealer documentation, this car could bring decent money (IMO) if the owner is willing to get it inspected/certified, and track down the ownership history. Old photos showing it at the track would be a plus. Get delivering dealer info and also check for 9737 attributes.

[GotGrunt]

Originally Posted by bergy

"COPO" money is a pretty broad range. The best cars have known ownership history, factory/dealer documents, and expert inspection certifications. Original drivetrain is a huge factor.

Even without factory/dealer documentation, this car could bring decent money (IMO) if the owner is willing to get it inspected/certified, and track down the ownership history. Old photos showing it at the track would be a plus. Get delivering dealer info and also check for 9737 attributes.

The reason I ask is because if this was a 1970 Chevelle ex-race car in similar condition with a CRW rear in it, a single fuel line, big block steering shaft, and ZL2 firewall piercing but was missing the original motor/trans and did not have a build sheet or other documentation, you’d have a hard time selling it as an LS6 down the road. Let’s just say you hit a dead end with the ownership history or tracking down the original block, then what?

I’m not doubting what this car is, just playing devil’s advocate and also want to educate myself on the general consensus in case I come across something like this in the future. Pretty much all the tell tale signs that the car is a COPO could have been added at any point after the car left the factory, and the X44D80 on the trim tag is not limited to COPOs.

Feel free to correct me if I’m off base here...

[Steve Shauger]

Originally Posted by GotGrunt

The reason I ask is because if this was a 1970 Chevelle ex-race car in similar condition with a CRW rear in it, a single fuel line, big block steering shaft, and ZL2 firewall piercing but was missing the original motor/trans and did not have a build sheet or other documentation, you’d have a hard time selling it as an LS6 down the road. Let’s just say you hit a dead end with the ownership history or tracking down the original block, then what?

I’m not doubting what this car is, just playing devil’s advocate here and also want to educate myself on the general consensus in case I come across something like this in the future. Pretty much all the tell tale signs that the car is a COPO could have been added at any point after the car left the factory, and from what I’ve read, the X44D80 on the trim tag is not limited to COPO cars.

The original poster summed up the identifying points in first post; rear, piercings. throttle arm, dual exhaust plate, ...etc


Next helpful hint is if dealer was a know sell COPO's.

[Copo_Cartel]

First of all....compare the 07A trim tag /body # to other known 07A cars as well as vin #’s. There are so many tell tale signs ...and if you know your way around a 69 Camaro and are mechanic savvy then you will know if it’s been monkeyed with. Hard to fool the old wrench guys.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Originally Posted by flyingn

interesting. NE Philly is my neighborhood. What part of Philly?

Sitting right off Keystone Street in Tacony section of Philly.

[GotGrunt]

Originally Posted by Steve Shauger

The original poster summed up the identifying points in first post; rear, piercings. throttle arm, dual exhaust plate, ...etc


Next helpful hint is if dealer was a know sell COPO's.

Originally Posted by Copo_Cartel

First of all....compare the 07A trim tag /body # to other known 07A cars as well as vin #’s. There are so many tell tale signs ...and if you know your way around a 69 Camaro and are mechanic savvy then you will know if it’s been monkeyed with. Hard to fool the old wrench guys.

I know, but my question was if the tell tale signs are enough to prove the pedigree. I guess they are?

[Tracker1]

Just re-iterating what Copo Cartel has already said, it's the undisturbed combo of things on this car that make it obvious...so obvious I do not know how any self-respecting Philly Camaro guy didn't spot the signs.

Cowl induction wiring holes in firewalls, BE rearends and D80 trim tags are certainly to be questioned on a restored car sitting in the line-up in a tent at Barrett-Jackson. A used up race car on a side street in Philadelphia? Nobody's adding such things to it - they've been there from the beginning. In the absence of documentation, that's how you tell. The BJ car you walk away from, this car you pay for it, hook it up to the trailer get it the heck home.

Not to overstate the obvious, but MacNeish (or equivalent) has to look at this car NOW for certification. If the new owner waits until it is restored bright and shiny they are too, too late because of what you've already said Grunt - anybody could've put it all there.

[Copo_Cartel]

With the photos provided...based on this particular car...I would say it is a used up COPO race car. And I am sure you will document the 2 hidden vins. Now ...get your VISUAL certification prior to turning a wrench. Btw...well said Tracker1