Baldwin motion chevelle on E-bay a Fake?

Mr4speed · #1 09-07-2000, 02:36 PM

I am really interested in the car however the owner of this "supposedly" well documented car does not want show me any paperwork?HMMMMM And why not?
WE all know the letters from rosen are worthless as he will tell you anything for 1500.Also many "fake"cars have won awards,been in magazines and changed hands many times before they were found out,The big stink of the bloomington gold certified vette with all paperwork is proof of that (thankfully a previous owner stepped forward).
I got a e-mail reply that copies of the paperwork will be given to the high bidder.
Now why would you bid on a car in the first place if you do not have any docs to research? This sounds a little fishy to me so I will be passing on this one unless I can see some paperwork and talk to the previous owners.On the other hand the owner may not really want to sell and is just feeling the market out,which will not net a legit offer dollarwise unless the buyer can thoroughly research the car before making a offer.
Jeff

Mr4speed · #2 09-07-2000, 06:04 PM

Ok-COPO,If he has been deluged with requests (which I doubt)He could just post them on a web page and post the address,This would be the easiest thing to do(that is what I have done in the past,before the internet it was 20.00-50.00 non refundable by mail). I do understand dealing with deadbeats and tirekickers. I have had potential buyers of some of the cars I had fillout financial statments before on some of the higher end cars I have had. This keeps the deadbeats out. Not that I mind showing cars to low end enthusiasts,that is what car shows are for.
Anyway if it's not to much trouble E-mail me what you have if you like.Thanks for the reply
Jeff

**sixtiesmuscle** · #3 09-07-2000, 06:24 PM

To Mr. 4 Speed, I take exception to your statement that Joel will say anything you want for $1500. That simply isn't true and you have no right to impune his character that way unless you have had him give you an authentication letter on a fake car. Whatever people may think of Joel's method of charging for a simple yes or no letter on his cars, I've never heard of him giving a false positive on a car, for any price. Has anyone else? In fact, the reason why people should protect their letters, etc. from Joel is that it would be easy for someone to forge one on a fake car. Since, at this time, all you can get from Motion is one of these letters to verify a car, they are not "worthless".

**YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY** · #4 09-07-2000, 06:40 PM

Mr4speed,
What are these 'financial statements' that you have your potential higher end buyers fill out? If it is a statement of net worth, do you verify it? Do you trust these statements? The only organization that I know of that requires a 'finance statement' is an auction house so you don't bid beyond your means. I am curious to know your procedure for buying a car like this one.
Thanks,
Marlin

bowtie3168 · #5 09-07-2000, 07:22 PM

Dear Mr 4 Speed,
I read your note and I comprehend what you are trying to say, but, please be very careful when making accusations about someone's credibility. I have met the owner of the car and while I have not looked over the actual documentation I feel that the gentleman is of an unstanding nature and must have a good reason for not releasing the paperwork. I am sure that the car is very much "real" and have seen it in person a few times, and it is a very nice car. Andrew

Mr4speed · #6 09-07-2000, 07:40 PM

Thanks for the response guy's I see I have hit some nerves on this.I will just pass on this car as this is to fishy for me. All I want to know is does the seller have the names and address's of the former owners back to the original buyer? window stickers and build sheets are easy to fake so the only way to 100% know if it is the real deal and not a fake or a conversion(car built by motion but not ordered through Baldwin chevy)
Is to use official DMV records. I will e-mail answers to some other questions I have gotten regarding other things.
Thanks guy's let's let this thread die.
Jeff

tom4221 · #7 09-07-2000, 09:52 PM

In response to Mr 4 speed. My chevelle is documented from the first day it was ordered from Motion performance. I've owned the car for 12 years and had it documented by Joel Rosen when I first bought it. The car needed total restoration. The reson I am not sending out the documentation is I have had over 200 requests for it and I don't want anyone using it to make fake copies for other cars. I will give the high bidder the right to back out of the deal for any reason. As for Joel documenting any car for 1500, that is just a not true I know Joel and he is very proud of the cars he built and wouldn't fake one for any amount of money.
Tom

**bkhpah** · #8 09-08-2000, 01:31 AM

Mr.4 Speed you seem to be very harsh toward the Motion Chevelle. I can understand that you would want documentation on such a purchase, but to hint that the car is "fake"
when this car has been in the public eye for years is a shock to me. It comes fully documented to the high bidder without any strings attached or without a credit report. What is that all about anyway? It seems to me that you owe Tom an apology for saying he is misrepresenting his car.
BKH

**COPO** · #9 09-08-2000, 05:33 AM

I have copies of all of the paperwork for the car. The owner told me you had to bid on the car to get the paperwork. My OPINION based on the info I have seen is it is the real deal. I'm guessing the owner has been deluged with requests for copies from lots of people who could never afford the car and therefore is trying to limit access to the documents to only the most serious buyers. I'm certain if you were the high bidder you could back out if you were not satisfied with the authenticity. I also agree there are a number of phony high dollar magazine cars.