COPO VALUES IN GENERAL

[hvychev]

I agree with Joe that I too am tired of all of these "what's it worth" threads and other topics that get to be nonsensical. I don't know, but this site has been getting less and less interesting. When I visit here, which has been less and less frequent these days, there are a ton of names that I don't even recognize with under 100 posts debating Mopars, Oldsmobiles, and other cars I couldn't care less about. This is a Chevy Supercar site. See the definition of supercar in Joey's post. Those cars should be discussed here first and foremost. If I want to learn about Mopars I will go to the moparts board or whatever it is called. I just long for threads where I actually learn something usefull about Chevrolet dealer built and factory supercars. Unfortunately, the people that used to possess the knowledge that I learned from also don't post as frequently. The few times I have clicked on Ford or Mopar sites I never see guys boasting about their Chevy's, but I see all kinds of heated debate surrounding other brands here every day.

[Stefano]

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Have you sold or know of any '71 Hemi E bodies that have sold recently-specifically Challengers??

MB

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The '71 E-bodies still bring a premium to the '70s, car for car.

Since there were so few '71 Hemis built, options, color and quality can really make a difference in value, such as the shaker option on a '71 Challenger.

I was the under bidder on Andy's Challenger, for resale inventory. That car was well bought, by another one of our good customers.

Moderators; If you think the thread should be moved, I would tend to agree.

[MultiMopars]

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We sold a few Hemi Cudas last year all were 4 speeds.

The low was $165,000.00 for a driver quality Hemi up to the Mid $200,000.00 range. The Hemi Cuda we had at Russo and Steele last year was a no sale at $235-$240,000, range plus the buyers premium.

We also currently have a very original Survivor Cuda for sale which will be running across the block at Russo and Steele in a couple of weeks, so we might have a chance to feel things out on that one.

Comparable L72 9561 COPO Camaros have been and are bringing close to these prices today. Tomorrow may be different.

Yenko L72 9561s fetch approx. $75-$100k more, car for car and ZL1 9560 COPOs fetch approx. double the Yenko number car for car.
With that said generalities are just that, and when the supply demand equasion is out of whack either way, you can have wild price swings up or down.

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Why is it that so many people assign such a value to such a thing? I see people making statements like this about Mr. Norm's cars as well. You won't find any add for such a thing in ANY old car price guide and I wonder if anyone has anyway of knowing if it REALLY adds any value to a car as it is seldom that two identical cars sold from different dealerships are available at the same time to the same buyer.

Not your remark but anothers.
As to the comments about WIW threads read my remarks in an earlier post. Along with the thought that if you exclude all of them as well as other that are not absolutely pertainate to what SOME are looking for in a web site there would not be much content and web site would soon flounder. I think the fact that it is 5 pages speaks to the fact that OTHERS are interested. This is the reason web sites have different forums of interest. If you don't like what is on this forum you can move to another. My guess is that your not finding things of interest is because MOST of those things have been discussed to the point there is nothing left to talk about.

This IS an everchanging market in one regard...selling prices, therfore I think it is VERY worthy of discussion and that most people find it interesting.

[quick-bowtie]

I dont know what to tell you but Ive been messing with cars for along time and I can say 100% the selling dealers of cars can make a differance and add value. Just the facts Ive seen it happen time and time again and know plenty of people that will step up and pay more for a car from Mr. Norms, Yenko, Nickey, Gibb, Dana etc..

[rubbinisracing]

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Yenko L72 9561s fetch approx. $75-$100k more, car for car and ZL1 9560 COPOs fetch approx. double the Yenko number car for car.
With that said generalities are just that, and when the supply demand equasion is out of whack either way, you can have wild price swings up or down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it that so many people assign such a value to such a thing? I see people making statements like this about Mr. Norm's cars as well. You won't find any add for such a thing in ANY old car price guide and I wonder if anyone has anyway of knowing if it REALLY adds any value to a car as it is seldom that two identical cars sold from different dealerships are available at the same time to the same buyer.


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I surely don't speak for others, but as a collector I would definitely pay more for a Yenko than a Non-Yenko COPO comparable car. I'm not going to quantify the difference and leave that to the negotiation.

[sYc]

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[
Why is it that so many people assign such a value to such a thing? I see people making statements like this about Mr. Norm's cars as well. You won't find any add for such a thing in ANY old car price guide and I wonder if anyone has anyway of knowing if it REALLY adds any value to a car as it is seldom that two identical cars sold from different dealerships are available at the same time to the same buyer.


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You are kidding ..right?

Who looks at old car price guides? I have yet to see one that came anywhere close to real world prices for supercars.

[Steve Shauger]

Multimopars:Why is it that so many people assign such a value to such a thing? I see people making statements like this about Mr. Norm's cars as well. You won't find any add for such a thing in ANY old car price guide and I wonder if anyone has anyway of knowing if it REALLY adds any value to a car as it is seldom that two identical cars sold from different dealerships are available at the same time to the same buyer."

If you believe the old car price guide you reference then there is no need for this thread... you have the answer. The price guides I have seen have been so off from the market.

There are many variable that make up price. In many cases it should be on a car by car basis. Originality, condition, color, options, selling dealer and the cars provenance and history are what determines the value to most buyers. many cars are sold privately and their prices are not captured in any guide database.

Lets all wait until next weeks auctions as they are a relative barometer of the market(not an absolute indicator of values).

[MultiMopars]

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[
Why is it that so many people assign such a value to such a thing? I see people making statements like this about Mr. Norm's cars as well. You won't find any add for such a thing in ANY old car price guide and I wonder if anyone has anyway of knowing if it REALLY adds any value to a car as it is seldom that two identical cars sold from different dealerships are available at the same time to the same buyer.


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You are kidding ..right?

Who looks at old car price guides? I have yet to see one that came anywhere close to real world prices for supercars.

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Well, a couple of examples would be insurance and finance companies.

There are seldom adds in these guides for things like a COPO ordered car mainly because they seldom change hands often enough that there are any recent comparibles. There are several things that people will assign values to that are not in price guides such as color.

I started this thread because I am interested in values as well as the cars themselves. It is often hard to determine values on some of these cars because they most often trade hands privately and the sales/buying price is not for public knowledge.

You have to treat a guide for what it is a "guide." It is the same thing with newer cars and the price guides used by the auto business. There are often times that a car dealer will pay full wholesale book for a particular car if it is a HOT sellers for them. Typically a dealer buys a car a minimum of $1000. BACK of wholesale. book.

These old car price guides are created from the prices of recent auctions and reporting old car dealers. You have to gleen the values based on what you know about these old car and what you follow. As an example, if you follow all of the auction reports for a particular type of car that there has been no reported sales since late 2006 you KNOW that you have to take into account a general market value discount because the guides value has not moved since that time because there have been no sales.

I have been buying and selling these old cars for 40+ years as well as spent 30 years in the new car business. I will say this, anyone that is concerned about being upside down in a car they intend to purchase is a FOOL if they don't look at price guides. OTOH, if you have a money tree in the back yard that you can pick $100. bills of off anytime you want, or if you purchase out the pure love of the car with no intentions of ever selling then it makes no difference to you. However, as much as most of us say we are in it for the love of the cars, MOST are aware and concerned with where there cars stand as a commodity.

[tom406]

MM, you're being way too analytical here. You can't look to the price guides like the NADA on late models at auction. These cars are emotional buys, not commodities, and often times the STORY is as compelling as anything about the car. Dealers like Mr. Norm's, Berger, Dana, and Tasca had such a high profile, that many buyers want a piece of that. If history meant nothing, then factory Ferraris and Shelbys that won major races wouldn't bring any more than unsuccessful privateer cars. Going through one of the "BIG" dealers just adds cachet to some buyers (me included). Yenko SYC cars, even though mechanically identical to the iron COPO cars, are their own deal because they have their own IDENTITY, much like Shelbys. And most discerning collectors know that the COPO option was Yenko's brainchild, and that the non-Yenko cars were made after the fact. The Yenko brand has only gotten stronger through the efforts of this board and other media, and that is bound to create more demand. And whatever you think about the aesthetics of the stripes, they make the cars more visually interesting and give them a stronger identity. And if you don't think that makes any difference, then you need only look at the value differences of Judge and non-Judge GTO's to see the error of that view. Or even a Road Runner versus a 330hp Sport Satellite.

The heart wants what it wants and will often pay accordingly.

As for these WIW/value threads, they are a little distasteful, but are easily avoided for those who are not inclined to participate, IMO.

[quick-bowtie]

Well said Tom