1968 Yenko Camaro RS/SS YS-8035 Barrett Jackson

[SS427]

Originally Posted by FTC

Even if fenders, doors, quarters, roof, tail panel, rockers,..etc,,etc have been replaced due to crash damage or rust and rot, and the only remaining sheet metal is the cowl and firewall?

My opinion has always been, and take it for just what it is, an opinion, is that as long as the firewall and the main 'birdcage' if you will is reused, I do not consider it a rebody. I have had cars in my shop that we had to replace every bit of sheetmetal such as quarters, decklid, door skins, hood and fenders but used the original birdcage and firewall, I do not consider that a rebody by any stretch. Again, just my opinion.

[R68GTO]

Originally Posted by SS427

My opinion has always been, and take it for just what it is, an opinion, is that as long as the firewall and the main 'birdcage' if you will is reused, I do not consider it a rebody. I have had cars in my shop that we had to replace every bit of sheetmetal such as quarters, decklid, door skins, hood and fenders but used the original birdcage and firewall, I do not consider that a rebody by any stretch. Again, just my opinion.

I'm with Rick on this....commonly called the "body in white" these days, it is the main inner structure that surrounds the passenger cabin. Includes floors, firewall, A&B pillars, rockers, and inner wheelhouses. While it's common to replace parts of the cage (rockers, floors), the rest of it usually stays relatively intact barring a significant collision.

[FTC]

Originally Posted by SS427

My opinion has always been, and take it for just what it is, an opinion, is that as long as the firewall and the main 'birdcage' if you will is reused, I do not consider it a rebody. I have had cars in my shop that we had to replace every bit of sheetmetal such as quarters, decklid, door skins, hood and fenders but used the original birdcage and firewall, I do not consider that a rebody by any stretch. Again, just my opinion.

I agree for the most part, but I am a body shop manager, auto painter by trade, and in my 45 years being in this trade, I have seen a lot .

I guess my question, or maybe it's an opinion is,.....if a "rare" car, (take that term as you will) meaning not some base 6 cylinder daily driver, is on it's way to getting restored, aka replacing 75% of it's sheet metal, because of rot from sitting in four feet of chicken poop in a barn some where,...and it has extensive damage to the hinge pillar, cowl panel, and firewall, from a side T-Bone hit, and those panels are also showing signs of rust as well....isn't panel replacement not only the correct way to repair those area, but the proper and safe way of restoring the car? If the answer is yes, then there are only two ways to achieve that.

1. After all the work on the frame machine, the pulling and measuring is done, the cowl and firewall and dash panel are cut off and replaced, (which will be joined by rotted floors, roof, rockers, quarters, etc...being replaced later) with new NOS or Aftermarket parts, resulting in the unavoidable removal of the VIN plate, data tag, and partial VINs.

Or

2. The rare car receives a donor body, one in great original shape, with all factory assembled OEM sheet metal, at factory specs, which also will result in the unavoidable removal of the VIN plate, data tag, and partial VINs.

[Z282NV]

Originally Posted by FTC

I agree for the most part, but I am a body shop manager, auto painter by trade, and in my 45 years being in this trade, I have seen a lot .

I guess my question, or maybe it's an opinion is,.....if a "rare" car, (take that term as you will) meaning not some base 6 cylinder daily driver, is on it's way to getting restored, aka replacing 75% of it's sheet metal, because of rot from sitting in four feet of chicken poop in a barn some where,...and it has extensive damage to the hinge pillar, cowl panel, and firewall, from a side T-Bone hit, and those panels are also showing signs of rust as well....isn't panel replacement not only the correct way to repair those area, but the proper and safe way of restoring the car? If the answer is yes, then there are only two ways to achieve that.

1. After all the work on the frame machine, the pulling and measuring is done, the cowl and firewall and dash panel are cut off and replaced, (which will be joined by rotted floors, roof, rockers, quarters, etc...being replaced later) with new NOS or Aftermarket parts, resulting in the unavoidable removal of the VIN plate, data tag, and partial VINs.

Or

2. The rare car receives a donor body, one in great original shape, with all factory assembled OEM sheet metal, at factory specs, which also will result in the unavoidable removal of the VIN plate, data tag, and partial VINs.

In my books as soon as you touch the VINs its no longer the same car, no matter how you do it.

[FTC]

Originally Posted by Z282NV

In my books as soon as you touch the VINs its no longer the same car, no matter how you do it.

So a rare, numbers match, one owner, all original drivetrain, COPO Camaro, with every piece of documentation it could possibly have, that has a rotted dash panel that needs replacing,.....(and obviously needs the VIN tag removed then re-installed because of the panel replacement).... isn't a numbers matching COPO Camaro anymore because of some rust repair?

[Z282NV]

Originally Posted by FTC

So a rare, numbers match, one owner, all original drivetrain, COPO Camaro, with every piece of documentation it could possibly have, that has a rotted dash panel that needs replacing,.....(and obviously needs the VIN tag removed then re-installed because of the panel replacement).... isn't a numbers matching COPO Camaro anymore because of some rust repair?

Yup, no longer a COPO. It may have COPO parts and documents related to those parts but thats it.

Here is an analogy. Just imagine I pass away in a car accident and some of my organs are donated to others who need them. They can even have my birth certificate, does that make them me?

[FTC]

Originally Posted by Z282NV

Yup, no longer a COPO. It may have COPO parts and documents related to those parts but thats it.

Here is an analogy. Just imagine I pass away in a car accident and some of my organs are donated to others who need them. They can even have my birth certificate, does that make them me?

That's a completely different story. Apples and oranges. I didn't say a few COPO parts remained on the car,..I said the entire car is numbers match, every nut and bolt original., all documentation to support all of it, original owner, etc....and what goes without saing is, the cowl data tag, and all hidden VINs are still in tact. All I mentioned was one VIN tag had to be removed to replace a rotted dash panel, the correct way to do the repair, then it obviously had to be reinstalled..

In your first post you said as soon as a VIN is touched, it's no longer the same car. I believe differently.

That $200,000.00 COPO is now worth $60.000.00 as just a 427 Camaro because of some proper rust repair? Not in my book, and I don't think anyone who owns a COPO would agree with that either.

This isn't a re-body debate where some people won't accept a donor body as the real thing with the VINs switched and all. This is a simple and routine repair that I outlined, addressing your statement that said..... "In my books as soon as you touch the VINs its no longer the same car, no matter how you do it".

If you want to use your human body analogy,...this would suit this discussion better. If you had a knee replacement, are you still the same person? That answer is yes. Just like the COPO is still the same car with a new dash panel.