What makes a COPO a COPO?

[66vettex2]

I was just reading about the burnish brown COPO for sale without the original engine, rear and perhaps transmission, although it has not been discussed. The VIN is documented as a COPO so does the VIN make it a COPO regardless of how many other components are replacements? Would like to hear from the Supercar owners. Thank you.

[12bolt]

I am surprised it has not been a flaming topic as yet. maybe everybody is at work or doing some other form of public service. Here goes my opinion. in the Year 1969, A C.O.P.O. Camaro was a Car specially ordered with one of two possible 427 engines installed at the factory. One Cast iron and a very few with an Aluminum Engine. They can be traced back through the COPO Connection and certified to be one of these specially ordered Cars. 35 years later, many things have happened to these Cars. one in particular apparently was Raced and then left in a Corner for many years. Forgotten. then resurrected and bringing $201,750 Dollars at Barret Jackson this year. Others drifted from owner to owner through the Gas crisis of the Seventies looked down upon as they were too costly to operate as daily drivers. Some were well preserved and recognized early on for the treasures that they are and would become. Many were wrecked and stripped of their useable parts. Others were left to deteriorate in various stages of disrepair. Some had their Engines pulled for various reasons. Other's Yanked their rears and trannys for whatever reason sounded good at the time. (Let's remember the true purpose of their production in the first place. I believe it was to go "Real Fast" in a straight line) and just like all the other Fast appreciating Musclecars of that Bygone era, People are recognizing that there is Gold in Them there Cars!! If a C.O.P.O. Camaro left the Factory and is still the original Body and frame, proven beyond the shadow of a doubt It is still a C.O.P.O.! devoid it's original drivetrain, it "May" not bring the Money that a similar C.O.P.O. with it's original drivetrain would. I say "May" due to the unpredictability of this Market. Supply and Demand tends to set the prices on these Cars as well as any other highly sought after item. Be it Picasso's or Beach front Real Estate, They just are not Making any new ones! So essentially I guess you can ask yourself, What is your 427 Corvette worth in Real nice condition, minus the original drivetrain, but equipped with a similar 427 from another Corvette as the Car you speak of could be compared to?? Remember Folks, I am using my FORD logic here!! a Shelby Mustang with N.O.M. is still a Shelby Mustang and commands about 95% of a Car with it's original engine. Boss 302 Mustangs Had bad Piston skirts and Many have Service Blocks in them as well. what is not acceptable with high value is a Car that is considered to be a "Re-Bodied" Car.(The practice of taking a Totaled original Car and putting all of the original stuff including Vin and Cowl Tags,onto a Clean Body is nothing more than a Glorified Clone) I have put on my asbestos suit and look forward to the reponses of those that might see things differently.

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
I was just reading about the burnish brown COPO for sale without the original engine, rear and perhaps transmission, although it has not been discussed. The VIN is documented as a COPO so does the VIN make it a COPO regardless of how many other components are replacements? Would like to hear from the Supercar owners. Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not seen the car so I'm just offering my opinion here. It appears the car has original paperwork showing that it is a COPO 427 car. It has been certified by the COPO Connection so it must have some form of documentation or proof of it being a COPO. That said, if the original engine is gone but there is still proof it's a real COPO, then it doesn't hurt the value that much. If the original BE rear is gone but another correct dated BE rear is in the car, then it probably doesn't hurt the value much either. The value really comes down to the documentation and what you as a buyer would feel comfortable spending. A Yenko with most of its original components missing is still a Yenko so it will still bring top dollar. So the COPO can't be far behind. Numbers matching is more important in a COPO if there is no paperwork. But COPO cars passed the $100K price a while ago so NOM with paperwork is almost as good as matching # with no paperwork. Again, this is my opinion but you were looking for thoughts and that's how I see it right now. Hope this helps.

[GeorgeLyons]

Well said, I have personally owned/restored/traded in chevrolet musclecars, corvettes and shelbys for over 30 years and have always felt the chevy guys were way too fixated on orig motor cars being way, way more valuable and collectible. A real car is a real car with or without its matching # motor or for tht matter, its original carpet or front bumper. Of course there is a value difference and some owners can select only orig motor cars for their ownership and yes, that is clearly what I prefer to own but I respect there are GREAT cars out there that will never be reunited (legitimately) with their factory installed engines. It does seem the Ford guys have it closer to reality in my opinion.

[Steve Shauger]

There is really no answer to this subject, because everyone had different comfort levels. For instance (an this doesn't only pertain to COPO's) you can have an original drive train car but the body is completely rusted and it is rebodied,then you have a race car where the body is near mint, but not one drivetrain component is original or you have a car with great docs and only the firewall is usable. This is a slippery slop issue.

I believe the ford guys are not as concerned with the #'s because they have access to factory documentation, and for the most part chevys don't. Because of lack of documentation more emphasis is placed on original components and ownership history. My preference is a car with original metal, drivetrain with docs (not always realistic). As I stated before it all comes down to comfort level, the more people comfortable with the car and its pedigree, the higher the price (condition being the same).

[JQ]

In my opinion I feel Copo's might be in a little different catagory since a definite number produced is still unknown. I think each copo holds a bit of Chevrolet history or mystery to enthusiasts. What if a copo has been butchered do to racing? At what point would it not be considered a Copo? It's hard to say. I think every car is different, but I agree with Steve their are different levels of comfort to what a person is willing to spend.... John Q.

[66vettex2]

I appreciate your insight into this matter and I'm sure it will surface again and again as prices continue to climb. The NCRS is obcessed with original engines and has an extensive database of engine pad pictures of broach marks and stampings. Just wanted other opinions as I'd like to own a supercar one day but realize that finding one with original drivetrain may not be possible.

Thanks again.