Senator Kerry is a saint

[Xplantdad]

Bill, ya damn show off...just kidding

[kwhizz]

Bill.......Just explain the Marc Rich Pardon to me.........LOL

Ken

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Bill.......Just explain the Marc Rich Pardon to me....

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Ken, that one really stunk-out the joint. Outgoing presidents do stuff like that. Reagan (or was it Bush senior?) pardoned Ollie North and all the Iran-Contra boys and that stunk too. I think Marc Rich's wife, a very attractive lady, if memory serves, cozied up to ol'Bill and cooed in his ear (etc.) until he agreed to pardon her husband. She probably promised him a big pile of money for his presidental library and for the DNC too.

Okay Ken, now you need to post a photo of your Nova's sweet L-89 engine and let's get back to the good stuff.

[GRB]

I think Bush and Cheney planted all them bombs in the WTC and then hided behind some bushes and fired some kind of missile into that Pentagon place. And that other plane just plain crashed fer no reason. Most Americans are too stoopid to know this!

Suggestion - let's stay away, way away from politics. IMHO we are better off to leave this forum to something we all have in common.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bill.......Just explain the Marc Rich Pardon to me....

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Ken, that one really stunk-out the joint. Outgoing presidents do stuff like that. Reagan (or was it Bush senior?) pardoned Ollie North and all the Iran-Contra boys and that stunk too. I think Marc Rich's wife, a very attractive lady, if memory serves, cozied up to ol'Bill and cooed in his ear (etc.) until he agreed to pardon her husband. She probably promised him a big pile of money for his presidental library and for the DNC too.

Okay Ken, now you need to post a photo of your Nova's sweet L-89 engine and let's get back to the good stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]



Ken

[SSJunkie68-69]

This is a car site right?

Just kidding, this has been a very enlightening debate of varying opinions that did not denigrate in to some all out slugfest complete with all types of bashing and personal attacks and insults. Way to handle this with class and dignity for everyone that has participated so far.

I do have some comments for you Bill specifically though and I would encourage others to join in as well. It pertains to Nixon's Watergate and Clinton's Sexgate. In reading your rebuttal, my take away from it is that you blame the malaise that settled in with the country and nation as a whole from '74-80 on Watergate and the fall out there after. You make it seem as if Nixon committed, to a certain extent, some great act of treason. I was in 3rd grade when this occurred so it didn't mean much to me then but as I studied it in school it was just one act of the "political process" that has been going on for a long long time. One side is trying to gain the upper hand on the other side for political gain. One of the main objectives of the break in was to find a information on donors but also to look for black book that contain the names of some "ladies" that went the extra mile to show their "commitment" and for their "do" who it takes attitude to help the Democratic party, (wink wink). Only this time the operatives got caught and the rest is, as we all know, history. They say politics is full of dirty tricks so it should surprise no one that things like this have happened in the past and have also happened since. I am not condoning it but merely stating it's a fact of life.

However, if you examine the "actions" that Clinton took with a White House intern, an employee of the federal government, where he completely and selfishly took advantage of his position of authority and abused it to the extent he went on TV and lied to the American people, when he uttered those infamous words " I did not have sex with that woman...Miss Lewinksy." I find this far worse than what Nixon did. Clinton than went on to lie about it and stone wall the American public until his actions and conduct lead to his vote of Impeachment. To me and to many of my contemporaries, Clinton desecrated the office of the most important positions in the world. At least Nixon had the stones to leave before a vote of impeachment took place and in doing so attempted to avoid further embarrassment and dishonor to the highest office in the world. Clinton chose not too and by lying to the American people in the manner and method which he did, remember the whole "define is" fiasco created more distrust for the office that any President following will be looked at with a microscope the size of the Washington Monument!

The media gave us Clinton and then they gave him a free pass. If Ford, Reagan or Bush senior had conducted something similar to what Clinton did there sure would be hell to pay. GW Bush is paying the price to a certain extent with the whole WMD's issue and our entrance in to war with Iraq but that's another issue. It's been nearly 10 years since Clinton lied and tried to cover up has actions to the American people. The country, as a whole, has not fallen into the malaise it did after Watergate. The economy has continued to grow, interest rates are low and inflation has been kept in check. To me, what caused the problems that occurred in '74-80 (including disco) were not all Watergate related and a result of the disillusionment of the American people with the political process.

In your opinion what was worse, Nixon's Watergate or Clinton's Sexgate?

[nuch_ss396]

I like this guy !

Tom,

The real reason Clinton didn't leave office had to do with
what we are facing today - HILLARY! I truly believe this
was their plan all along and his antics put a serious kink
in the "master plan". If he left office, she would have
been toast. Just remember her now infamous " vast right
wing conspiracy" discussion on the Today Show. She looked
like crap. It showed in her face. All those years of
putting up with Slick Willies non-sense and it almost came
to a grinding halt. She was in total damage control mode.

She played it well. You have to give her credit for that.

BTW, this really isn't a car site at all. We do Politics
and sometimes get into cars.

[Salvatore]

Man you guys are impressing me. Very intelligent debates! You guys are to smart to be messing with cars.

[427TJ]

Tom, Watergate was worse. The "malaise" of the '70s was due first to the long, hard slog of losing Vietnam with over 58,000 dead American soldiers and then Watergate just added to the downward spiral. Nixon did all he could do to obstruct the Watergate investigation, just as Clinton did with all of his "bimbo eruptions." Again, it's just my opinion, but I'd rather the president was "happy," shall we say, and the economy buzzing along instead of having a vindictive, paranoid president, bent on destroying his political enemies no matter what. I guess one man's burglary is another man's b___-job.

(I like Chris Rock's explanation of Monica-gate. He said that if Hillary had been "on the job," Monica wouldn't have stood a chance! Now that's just comedy genious.)

Monica went to Washington, and I quote her, to "get her presidential knee-pads" and she did. She knew a horn-dog like Clinton would oblige her and he did--and he was impeached. Hillary, like Bill, is a political opportunist, just as is every winning politician, and she decided to stay with Bill, probably to further her own ambitions. If you're not ambitious, you're not going to be the president.

The media surely did not give Clinton a "free pass." They covered Monica-gate with zeal! 24/7 zeal! All that talk about stained dresses and cigars--hell, the media couldn't get enough because they knew WE THE PEOPLE couldn't get enough! (The media moguls saw what a gratuitous nation wanted with the O.J. trial coverage, 24/7, and then Clinton just handed the 24-hour news media Monica-gate and the cable news advertizing departments went HOORAY!!!) (So did Republican fund-raisers.)

I'd bet that there is a large segment of the political Right that prays for another Clinton administration. I mean, it was FUN to go after them in the '90s--it made Rush a rich man--and Bill just kept on giving them more to feed on! A second (third, that is) Clinton administration would make cable news ad revenues quadruple overnight! Fox and all the other cable channels would shout "YAHOO, now we can fill the 24-hour news cycle!" Funny how people can make lemonade when given lemons.

Nuch, we seem to do politics here in the Lounge section. If guys didn't post silly political stuff then maybe the Lounge would be more about silly jokes or videos. (Who started this anyway...) We're all entitled to our opinions and others are entitled to rebuttals. Think of it as being fair and balanced.

Not to worry boys, I really don't think Hillary has a chance. She's not Bill. People miss Bill. They miss him because he had sex-appeal and charisma and he was smooth in front of the camera--he still draws huge crowds all over the world. Hillary makes people react negatively, trust me. Certain parts of the Democratic party might want her in the White House but they don't realize that it's Bill who they want back in the WH. Oh, and if Hillary does get elected, she'll push Bill out the door and say, "It's MY show now!"

Relax, it's gonna' be Jeb, I can feel it.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are to smart to be messing with cars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking only for myself, I can't afford to mess with my Camaro so I type. Send me car money and I'll stop typing.