the Stock Market, greed vs tangibles

NovaMob03 · #1 10-08-2008, 04:48 AM

We've just experianced the largest stock losses in recent history. Good people have lost their homes & retirement funds to what appears to be corp greed & government do-nothingness. It is a very sad state of affairs for such a hard working, proud nation.
The last time the market tanked, I pulled everything out of my brokers hands & told him he'd lost enough of my hard earned money...told him I could lose it on my own from here on out. So, I bought cars. Things I could love, pass on to others & be happy about the path I chosen to live.
When I see the bastards that the American people have bailed out, so the can continue to live in luxury...their smug, emotionless faces on TV saying 'we didn't know anything we were doing was wrong' It makes me ashamed & so pissed off that I want to beat them within an inch of their lives.
So, what are we going to do? Watch America flame? Tell our children that it's not the way it used to be? That corrupt Americans shouldn't pull the nation down...but will continue to try? Or, have Americans been plain stupid with debt issues.

It's the 'perfect storm'...debt...greed...incompetence & I'm glad I got my house in order and missed the boat
Sorry for the rant, but this is total

**scott s** · #2 10-08-2008, 04:55 AM

Well said........

**Born30YrsLate** · #3 10-08-2008, 05:06 AM

I love those moron financial executives when they say "I've lost millions of dollars over this"...yeah, poor them, they make hundreds of millions of dollars over a number of years and lose a couple right now...yeah, poor them...like the idiot CEO from Lehman Brothers I think it was who made $242 million over 8 years as CEO and whe questioned about it tanking, his defense is "well I've lost millions"...priceless

**MosportGreen66** · #4 10-08-2008, 05:31 AM

I do agree that CEO compensation is out of control. But this is not a problem that has been going on for the last six months. It has been a wide spread issue that needs more intervention than any buy plan.

The stock market is not yielding high returns right now. If you need cash to make short term liabilities, get out of the stock market NOW. In fact, if you need money for long liabilities in the neighborhood of 2-3 years, buy out now as well because it might take that long to regain losses seen of recent.

The only places liquid assets (cash) should be is FDIC insured accounts, and treasury issued avenues. But while this is an issue that originated in the US, it is most certainly not restricted to the States. Looks at international markets, commodities markets, it is far from a beautiful day overseas as well!

-Dan

TMagda · #5 10-08-2008, 06:03 AM

A little random:

I think the problem is that under the current system CEO's/top mgt have absolutely no skin in the game. Nobody should get paid enough so after one year they are set for life. The argument that companies need to offer the gigantic comp packages they do to attract the top talent makes no sense to me. Offer a $1m (vs. many $m) salary and I am sure you will have plenty of applicants. How well would the next best choice perform? The CEO's select the board, the board sets the CEO comp - anyone see a conflict there? CEO's claim to be accountable to the board and the shareholders, but usually they control the board and the actual shareholders are spread so thin (thru funds) that, although they are the true entity owners, have no voice. With the money comes the power and the "haves" don't want to upset the current state for fear of losing what they have. Nobody ever complains in an up market. The system is broken and it will take more than one outstanding leader to fix it. I don't believe anything will change until people start to care about each other. This is a zero sum game. If your deal is too good, someone else's is bad. I have not met too many human beings that are wired properly to handle power. One idea I had was for the SEC to require outstanding common shares to be replaced with interest bearing preferred shares. This would enable investors to count on some reasonable return on investment and force accountability on the mgt teams. I lost at least a Z/28 last week but I am not complaining. I know the risk. Where else can I put my money?

**MosportGreen66** · #6 10-08-2008, 06:24 AM

I don't think we should talk about upper management and the stock market without mentioning short selling. Short selling, being the most illegal - legal stock market practice going, is the root cause for the majority of our current issues.

But with all the negative talk about CEOs I wish more could be like John Mackey, the CEO of Whole Foods. His yearly salary was cut to $1 to affirm his commitment to the company. Granted he makes a hefty compensation, it is reassuring to see someone in the business for a tangible besides money.

Things could be seriously worse in the States too... We could be like Iceland who is pleading with Russia to buy out their ailing credit structure. 5 Billion dollars is a nice gift to get from a neighbor.

**Mr70** · #7 10-08-2008, 06:32 AM

I'm with you Jude.
I saved every piece of junkmail I received over the last 6 years offering me free mortgages or credit cards with absolutely no money down,no W-2's needed,no background checks,no credit check,no interest,no fees,no cosigners,no questions asked.They didn't even know anything about me..who runs a company like that?..that's just assine!
To me that was a HUGE red flag of an infectious virus and a telegraphing of a house of cards waiting to collapse so I sold every single stock I owned right there and then during those days.Put all my money into tangible or insured ventures,regardless of how small the interest rate was.Told all my close friends & loved ones that there is a financial Tsunami coming the likes of which we have never seen before so get your house in order,especially to those I know over the age of 65 because their recovery time is limited.

Today I still have that pile of junkmail offers over 12" inches high and see them as the next "Beanie Baby" collectible in the future..LOL.."Remember when we would get these daily".
The banks did this on their own & have noone to blame but themselves.They should be held accountable for their greed and ignorance of handing out mortgages like they were christmas calendars to anybody who wanted one and enticing people to live way beyond their means when they had no business doing so.Now we sit here today watching the banks not claim responsibilty for their own actions while going under and it's magnified into a worldwide epidemic.
With Governments,(i.e.us & our offspring),hoping to try and bail them out as a company,while they ride away on their individual golden parachutes.

Look what happened to Lehman Bros.CEO Richard Fuld yesterday after appearing before a senate committee.I could see this becoming a daily epidemic too..
http://www.businessandmedia.org/arti...006150152.aspx

**Fast67VelleN2O** · #8 10-08-2008, 07:58 PM

"The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer"

**427TJ** · #9 10-08-2008, 08:03 PM

"Socialism for the rich, capitalism for everyone else."

NovaMob03 · #10 10-08-2008, 08:25 PM

In an attempt to do away with last yrs stash of Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale, to make room for this yrs batch, I think I overserved myself

and got angry at something I/we have no control over. I've always tried to live as my folk's taught me...'don't buy it if you can't afford it' and 'stay outta debt, except for a managable mortgage' and 'teach your children common sence & raise them to the best of your ability'. That generation got it right and we, as a group, seem to have gotten it wrong.
Anyway, I'll stick with having a few nice cars & some cash in the bank and if I get brave, after I sell something, I may try to snag a lot with a fishing pond & watch the world go by.
Time for lunch and another frosty Ale